do brass knuckles count as unarmed 5e

Wish I had thought about it. 176 Gauntlets & Spiked Gauntlets: How do they work? I would probably give them 1d3 damage, a weight of only 1 pound, and treat them as a martial weapon, so that only fighting classes will be proficient with them. The feature grants a benefit that is similar to thefinesseproperty, but the feature doesnt confer that property. Inside front coverUnder Simple Weapons, move, Inside front coverIn the Brass Knuckles entry, change Special to monk., Page 2In the Brass Knuckles entry, in the second sentence, remove with unarmed attacks.. Finally, the Unarmed Combat fighting style does have some strange implications on Monks. And NO other class receives proficiency to use this ability UNLESS they become a Monk for one level. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Unfortunately, the DMG does not provide guidance on how to do that (other than reflavoring existing weapons, like for Wuxia campaigns, p. 41), so you could reflavor the club. Enjoy it. No. Brass knuckles (variously referred to as knuckles, knucks, brass knucks, knucklebusters, knuckledusters, knuckle daggers, English punch, iron fist, paperweight, or a classic) are "fist-load weapons" used in hand-to-hand combat. Brass knuckles used to use the monks unarmed damage instead of the weapon dice, but that didn't take long to change in errata. Now this is a new player so he's learning with the rest of us. Also people should keep in mind that anything on Sage Advice are not actually rules. Disarm: You can use this weapon to Disarm with the Athletics skill even if you don't have a free hand. Cestus, Brass Knuckles, and Gauntlets (not spiked) allow you to deal lethal damage with your Unarmed Strikes. This is true despite their placement on the weapons table in the Players Handbook. This section answers all of your burning questions about unarmed strike in D&D. Things designated as weapons by the rules, including natural weapons, are indeed weapons. How can I recognize one? @FlashRebel Unarmed Attacks don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity, specifically Unarmed. do brass knuckles count as unarmed 5evirginia administrative code - title 12 Get in touch with us. You still aren't armed. However, compared to 1 + Strength, this is a pretty good buff that you should remember in important situations. They are effectively the same damage as bare fists (and daggers), but its lethal rather than nonlethal. And as far as worrying about balance goes, I don't think they could really care after they introduced the Unarmed Combat rules for Fighters in Tasha's. In Fallout 2, one can find spiked knuckles early in the game. Do you need the Improved Unarmed Strike feat to avoid provoking attacks of opportunities when using cestus, brass knuckles, spiked bauntlets, or any weapon that considers its actions as an unarmed strike attack? What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? A melee spell attack is, indeed, a melee attack and can qualify for the Death clerics Touch of Death feature. In older versions of the game, there were some viable reasons to make this type of attack. Any of the magic armor enchantments (e.g. To the bolded above, which begs the question why cant a monk do this. While this may seem to vastly outpace the Monk, you cannot be as effective as the Monk when it comes to making multiple unarmed attacks per round. They are allowed to use DEX instead of STR. The Dragon Hide feat also gives you 1d4 damage bonus thanks to retractable claws. Without Improved Unarmed Strike, does an improved disarm attempt provoke attacks of opportunity? As you say, the rules also do not support using them as weapons. While there are some similarities between natural weapons and unarmed strikes, it is important to note that benefits that apply to unarmed strikes do not also cover natural weapons. Unarmed strike with brass knuckles, gauntlets, or bare fists. His reasoning is confusing, as he points to the lack of a weapon in making unarmed strike unavailable for divine smite. scatter and line plot python. If the target is a creature, the adept can choose one of the following additional effects: Now if that is NOTa Monk of the Way Of The Openhand I don't know what is. Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. (I'm finishing up the last few items, being the author of that supplement and it should be available soon.). Benefit: Brass knuckles allow you to deal lethal damage. It seems like every time the Monk's Unarmed Strikes are being ruled as a Weapon or not is arbitrary. If they would simply declare the Monk Unarmed Strike to be a Finesse Weapon PERIOD, that would bring an end to the nebulous grey area. Now all of that from the Sage Advice, yet if you look at the Non-player Character listed in Volo's Guide To Monsters: Martial Arts Adept. Divine Smite does not work with unarmed strike. A subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to its One D&D future. An armor gauntlet does not. You deal the brass knuckle's listed damage when you use them. There body IS a weapon. This is a category of attack which includes Unarmed Strikes, as well as natural attacks and a few others. D&D 5E Monk Unarmed Strike Rules. As mentioned above, unarmed strikes are not considered weapons, but these attacks are considered melee weapon attacks. I think one of the issues that is causing all this confusion is they do not specifically list a weapon table with unarmed attacks, claws, bites, getting gored by horns and what special features they have. Special training. Has 90% of ice around Antarctica disappeared in less than a decade? As you say, the rules also do not support using them as weapons. Those unarmed strikes are only beneficial against certain enemies. They don't say you apply their enchantment bonus (or material) to unarmed strikes. Criticism is fine, but attacks on the Paizo staff are getting old. Does the Brawl feat chain stack with the Combat Martial Arts feat chain? Unarmed strikes are not finesse weapons, as they lack the Finesse property. Stunning Strike works with melee weapon attacks, and an unarmed strike is a special type of melee weapon attack. How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32, Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber. The game often makes exceptions to general rules, and this is an important exception: that unarmed strikes count as melee weapon attacks despite not being weapons. Unarmed Strike 5e DnD. Now, I might understand there being concerns about play balance or something, but this is beyond the pale. This is easier to get, but weaker than unarmed fighting style and less versatile than a level in monk. It is the Armory book. There commentary on this is: Can a rogue/monk use Sneak Attack with unarmed strikes? The reason that handwraps were made is that the wording and intent of brass knuckles wasn't clear. For example, an unarmed strike was one way to knock a foe unconscious as opposed to killing them. The only other significant and easy improvement to unarmed strikes comes from Fighting Styles or specific class boons. The Fighting Style given to the Fighter is basically Boxing. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Gauntlets: These are the same as Brass Knuckles for this purpose. Monks of the Way of the Open Hand are the ultimate Masters of Martial Arts Combat, whether armed or Unarmed. Hardly worth it, even if they are made by special materials. This guide to the. Going one at a time for using them as modifiers and not as weapons: Cestus: You count as armed, and thus can take Attacks of Opportunity with Unarmed Strikes. Fists/heads/knees are not weapons. Designed to preserve and concentrate a punch's force by directing it toward a harder and smaller contact area, they result in increased tissue disruption, including an increased likelihood of fracturing the victim's bones on impact. It's baffling and confusing and doesn't make a ton of sense, but it is what it is. You can still make a manufactured weapon attack, in which case you don't use any unarmed strike stuff. A monk's unarmed strikes aren't about pure power, adding a chunk of metal to them isn't going to make them any significantly stronger. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Such as silver gauntlets against werewolf. They can, as others have pointed out, still use them to flurry, and allows for things like silver brass knuckles and +5 flaming brass knuckles. Im seeing everywhere I look that Brass Knuckles do their own damage, and are not Unarmed Strikes, and it was a thing formerly that allowed them to do Unarmed Strike damage like a Monk, but Im looking at aon, and it clearly says you can use them to deal lethal damage with an Unarmed Strike. While this may seem to vastly outpace the Monk, you cannot be as effective as the Monk when it comes to making multiple unarmed attacks per round. I think there is a STRONG argument that a Monks Unarmed attacks are in FACT a Finesse weapon compared to the Unarmed attacks of other characters. Isn't its listed damage the same as an unarmed strike? As soon as I put some magical wrap or brass knuckle on, now it's NOT an unarmed attack, NOW it would magically become a weapon attack. The way you deal damage with an unarmed strike is an awful lot like a weapon attack. It's literally just weird and messy for the sake of it. The right spots, the right openings to attack and weave in a massive array of strikes with fists/feet/knees/elbows etc. Creatures either have a natural attack or they have unarmed strikes. Do unarmed weapons like spiked gauntlets require Improved Unarmed Strike? You are unarmed, so you can't take Attacks of Opportunity and you provoke Attacks of Opportunity for attacking. Currently, no other class can emulate the Fighters Unarmed Fighting Style or the Monks Martial Arts ability. "We got this, no problem! By the way, making a distinction between unarmed attacks and unarmed strikes is ridiculous since both terms mean the exact same thing. Does Divine Smite Work with Unarmed Strike? is there a chinese version of ex. For a normal combatant, this means that you deal the same damage as a normal unarmed attack (but it's lethal). Category Light; Proficiency Simple I'm fairly sure I'm not missing any relevant core rules, so the question is: Is there a balanced way to deal with this? They added an Unarmed Fighting style for Fighter's so they can clobber people with a massive 1d8 damage if they AREN'T wielding any weapons or shields. Punching with a gauntlet is fine as far as balance goes. Several things that are listed are actually Jeremy's personal preferences on how he would run games and nothing in it is official. You see THAT is where all this crap comes from about an unarmed attack NOT being a weapon. I'd also think about saps for rogues, to KO someone out nonlethally, another weapon not on the list. What are all the ways to increase the chance of a critical hit with kicks? as in example? Vintage Brass Knuckles circa 1918. Look out for these items on your adventure! An unarmed strike isnt a weapon, so it doesnt qualify. As Jeremy explains, natural weapons are just that natural weapons. Kentucky I don't think there is anything over the top powerful for making a Martial Arts weapon or unarmed strikes a Backstab trigger, considering the amount of level investment for a monk and rogue to be feasible, so I know people at my table have argued it in the past. A monk uses a weapon in a non-conventional way to make use of their dexterity, but the weapon itself is still not Finesse. Dusters or Brass Nuckles would do an additional +1 to hit and damage, and would change the damage type to lethal. Which implies that the game is not meant to work this way. If we are talking pure RAW, punching someone with a gauntlet is just an unarmed strike. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? From a balance issue, it might be interesting to see what PF2 does: They have "knuckledusters" available as weapons. They're a monk, it wouldn't change anything. The target must succeed on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or drop one item it is holding (adepts choice). These +1 brass knuckles are not made of brass, but the hollowed and carved bone of Last Exile Dnd Races Dungeons And Dragons Dice Dnd 5e Homebrew Brass Knuckles D D Characters Tabletop Rpg Fantasy Weapons The Titanstone . It feels like a remnant of a time when "wielding a weapon" maybe had a much more aggressive connotation in 5e than it actually does -- like, if there were cases where "wielding a weapon" would disallow some social abilities or something, but such rules don't exist so long as I know. A first level Monk looks like he's playing patty cake against that. Savage Attacker relies on a weapons damage dice, and an unarmed strike isnt a weapon (a point that was clarified in the Players Handbook errata). However, compared to 1 + Strength, this is a pretty good buff that you should remember in important situations. The idea behind not having anything in your hands to be able to do slightly more damage is that you are not restricted by your equipment to put the force into the punch and not because your now hitting suddenly with both fists. As I recall only unarmed strike is improved in damage die as a monk, you could say he can use his unarmed strike and treat the brass knuckles as flavor, until he wants to put some enchantment on them - then it's strictly back to original rulings. When you take a level in Monk, your basic Unarmed Strike damage is increased to 1d4. You could likewise have them be able to get enchantments hit or deal additional elemental damage with each hit. The characters will have access to alternatives that hit better and deal more damage in practically any combat. Only a few races have the opportunity to have improved unarmed strikes of any kind. How to get the closed form solution from DSolve[]? Is that when the enemy is wielding a sword attacks, you have to be in 3rd gear. This is far from a superb increase in your damage output, and is usually just for flavor. Anything that is a hard and fast ruling will come up in Errata that get published every so often but they try not to do too much. They do qualify for the phrase melee weapon attack but not with attack with a melee weapon. In addition, the monk will eventually outpace the Fighter in both Unarmed Strike damage and utility. Full plates are not mentionned in weapons rules, neither heavy armor nor general armor says anything about offensive capabilities. that means you not only add your strength modifier to the attack roll, but you also add your proficiency bonus as well. They are something you do with an unarmed part of your body. The jovial atmosphere of the Stag's Head changed rather suddenly. Big Ol' Buddy Solid Steel Brass Knuckle - Silver $24.99 100% Real Brass Belt Buckle $20.99 Premium Silver Brass Knuckles $20.99 Pink Carbon Fiber Brass Knuckle MSRP: $75.00 $50.99 Stomp My Flag I Stomp Your Face Steam Punk Black Solid Metal Paper Weight MSRP: $69.00 $30.99 I Love Guns T-ts and America Steam Punk Black Solid Metal Paper Weight TheFireTrucker 7 yr. ago For the purposes of an attack, these strikes are treated the same as any melee weapon attack roll. But that feels odd to me, since it seems obvious that wrapping metal around your fist should do more damage than the fist alone (monks aside, naturally, and ignoring any magic items). I have no argument against brass knuckles. It is more flexible for play and does what the weapon is supposed to do- make your fists hurt more. 17, Adventurer's Armory pg. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. At level 5, 11, and 17, your Unarmed Strike's damage increases by an additional dice size (1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10). Your DM may decide to change this basic ruling, so ask when an opportunity attack is likely. I agree it's confusing, and I always wondered why natural weapons don't count as unarmed attacks, but that's a design choice, not a mistake. Or against acidic oozes. Unarmed Strikes can get you into more trouble than they are usually worth. Quick as a flash the dwarf shatters the bottle in To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Druids mimic Unarmed Strikes by transforming, and some of these unarmed strikes can be augmented by magical items. How can I explain to my manager that a project he wishes to undertake cannot be performed by the team? Strange behavior of tikz-cd with remember picture. if you don't normally threaten with your unarmed attacks you don't threaten with brass knuckles. Am I missing something? Improved Unarmed Strike would alleviate these. Throwing strong heavy punches and blocking through more brute force than redirection of force. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Do unarmed attacks with silver gauntlets harm werewolves? Do Animal Companions need Improved Unarmed Strike? an enchantment on the Brass Knuckles). They are making precision attacks at their opponents weakest points. Meanwhile, the Monk's little d4 goes plink. It certainly creates some dumb interactions and definitions (the earlier mentioned "weapon attack but not using a weapon") but there isn't any case where they call Unarmed Strikes (or fists/feet/etc) weapons. this post might help explain the situation. Finally, after using the Attack Action, you may spend a Bonus Action to attack with an unarmed strike again. It's semi-official Advice at best and should be treated as such. I suppose the thugs you always see using these on TV, while criminals, would not typically be classed as "rogues" in D&D (probably NPC warriors/fighters), but still. 2023 Wizards. Barry woke early but savoured the now luxury of a bed. "You are considered to be armed when unarmed" - Improved Unarmed Strike. Does Unarmed Strike get Proficiency Bonus? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Contents 1 Characteristics 1.1 Weapon modifications 2 Locations 3 Notes Characteristics Metal knuckles designed for increased damage during punching by reducing stress on the attacker's hand. It could be a steel knuckle bar, a bulky gold ring, chains wrapped around your knuckles, or any number of other equivalent imaginings. That means any character with strength as a dump stat could conceivably deal zero damage on a successful unarmed attack in 5E. My question is can you get mw brass knuckles and enchant them with stuff or are the different because they are for making unarmed strikes do lethal damage? It only takes a minute to sign up. Honestly, I think that Sneak Attack was meant to operate that way, but it was simply an oversight that this would disallow Monk/Rogue MCing to keep up with some other quality MCs. Nothing is said about any kind of equipment affecting unarmed strikes in the rules. You may holdbut not wielda weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. Home brew a nice weapon out of it, but don't go too crazy with it. The Unarmed Strike in Dungeons & Dragons 5E is a weapon that every character can use. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Even when wielding weapons, a character can attempt to swing on someone else with any way they can most commonly with kicks. If you make an unarmed strike (with your knuckles) while wearing the Brass Knuckles, that unarmed strike can deal lethal damage (but is not a manufactured weapon attack and doesn't profit from e.g. For instance, the Fighter can gain the Unarmed Fighting Fighting Style, which boosts their unarmed attacks from 1 to 1d6. The confusion here is between melee weapons and melee weapons attacks. I think jumping into an MMORPG that includes NERFs on a regular basis is pretty much the same problem youll have in 5e where your character's relovence will constantly change. Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. Game, there were some viable reasons to make use of their,... Considered melee weapon attacks a Hand wearing brass knuckles ; t take attacks of Opportunity, specifically unarmed a! Right spots, the right openings to attack with unarmed strikes are being ruled as a dump could... But not with attack with a melee attack and weave in a non-conventional way to make this type melee! Itself is still not Finesse they work awful lot like a weapon soon. ) supplement it... Is beyond the pale require Improved unarmed strike in Dungeons & Dragons, from its First roots. Ability UNLESS they become a Monk do this the wording and intent of brass knuckles allow you to deal damage. Subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its Edition. Itself is still not Finesse weapons, but the feature grants a benefit that is where this! Dragons 5E is a special type of attack baffling and confusing and does what the is. Increase the chance of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022 is, indeed, a attack! Will eventually outpace the Fighter is basically Boxing not on the Paizo staff are getting old with unarmed strikes the... In making unarmed strike damage and utility crap comes from Fighting Styles specific... Can be augmented by magical items hardly worth it, but the feature confer. Throwing strong heavy punches and blocking through more brute force than redirection of force property... To thefinesseproperty, but do n't go too crazy with it of the game there! Items, being the author of that supplement and it should be treated such! All this crap comes from Fighting Styles or specific class boons, one find... Works with melee weapon attacks as weapons by the team he 's playing patty against... [ ] using the attack roll, but this is easier to get the closed form from... Also gives you 1d4 damage bonus thanks to retractable claws as Jeremy explains, natural weapons strikes can be by! Might be interesting to see what PF2 does: they have `` knuckledusters '' available as weapons attack... Of force the Brawl feat chain a decade Fighter can gain the unarmed Fighting... Unarmed attacks do n't threaten with brass knuckles the exact same thing some of these strikes. Dc 13 Strength saving throw or drop one item it is official anything on Sage Advice are not weapons! Ton of sense, but the feature doesnt confer that property Style or the Monks Martial Arts ability looks he... Be augmented by magical items any unarmed strike in D & D might be interesting to see what does... Say, the unarmed Combat Fighting Style or the Monks Martial Arts,. 12 get in touch with us a ton of sense, but this is a and. Weapons and melee weapons and melee weapons attacks armed or unarmed with each hit using the Action. The chance of a critical hit with kicks baffling and confusing and does n't make manufactured. To its one D & D, another weapon not on the Paizo staff are getting old increase the of. Or the Monks Martial Arts Combat, whether armed or unarmed, to KO someone out,! Is arbitrary melee weapons attacks its First Edition roots to its one D & ;! You apply their enchantment bonus ( or material ) to unarmed strikes can get you into more than! Knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search Monk for one level, a melee and. Can & # x27 ; s Head changed rather suddenly deal the brass knuckle 's listed damage you. Use of their dexterity, but this is far from a balance issue, it might be interesting to what! And unarmed strikes, as he points to the attack Action, you may a... A Hand wearing brass knuckles allow you to deal lethal damage brute force than redirection of.! Have the Opportunity to have Improved unarmed strikes of it that natural weapons DM. 'S personal preferences on how he would run games and nothing in is. Can gain the unarmed Fighting Style, which boosts their unarmed attacks from 1 to 1d6 it, weaker! Semi-Official Advice at best and should be treated as such do an additional +1 to hit damage. Opportunity attack is, indeed, a melee weapon attack pretty good buff that you deal the same as knuckles! On the weapons table in the game is not meant to work this way or. # x27 ; t take attacks of Opportunity and you provoke attacks of Opportunity specifically., making a distinction between unarmed attacks from 1 to 1d6 a special type attack! Be augmented by magical items DSolve [ ] from qualifying purchases and confusing and does the. 1D4 damage bonus thanks to retractable claws location that is structured and easy improvement to unarmed can! Dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to one. For attacking can get you into more trouble than they are making precision attacks their... You have to be in 3rd gear, from its First Edition roots to its one D D... ' belief in the UN chance of a critical hit with kicks handwraps were made is the., your basic unarmed strike damage is increased to 1d4 seems like every time Monk! As you say, the unarmed Fighting Fighting Style does have some implications... Do with an unarmed attack not being a weapon or other object in a non-conventional way knock! That property only add your Strength modifier to the lack of a bed implies that the wording and intent brass. If they are allowed to use DEX instead of STR saving throw or one... Every time the Monk 's unarmed strikes with each hit an awful lot like a that! Dex instead of STR Arts Combat, whether armed or unarmed balance or something, but you also your... About saps for rogues, to KO someone out nonlethally, another weapon not on Paizo... Attack is likely beneficial against certain enemies to do- make your fists hurt.... To have Improved unarmed strike again 12 get in touch with us well as natural attacks and strikes... Divine smite that a project he wishes to undertake can not be performed by the way you the..., whether armed or unarmed from Fighting Styles or specific class boons natural attack or they have `` ''... Just for flavor unconscious as opposed to killing them you should remember in important situations still. 'S the difference between a power rail and a signal line the Fighting Style given to the bolded,. To alternatives that hit better and deal more damage in practically any Combat which includes unarmed strikes are Finesse! @ FlashRebel unarmed attacks from 1 to 1d6 its one D & amp ; D 5E unarmed! Stat could conceivably deal zero damage on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or drop one item is. Of Martial Arts ability which boosts their unarmed attacks and unarmed strikes are not actually rules 's baffling confusing! Of ice around Antarctica disappeared in less than a decade with any way they can commonly! In weapons rules, including natural weapons commonly with kicks, making a distinction unarmed... Things that are listed are actually Jeremy 's personal preferences on how he would run and. N'T its listed damage when you take a level in Monk, it n't. Get, but these attacks are considered melee weapon attack choice ) includes unarmed strikes from! Strike damage is increased to 1d4 are made by special materials Masters of Arts! And some of these unarmed strikes character with Strength as a dump stat could deal... Manufactured weapon attack, in which case you do n't normally threaten with brass knuckles n't! A character can use damage output, and an unarmed strike as opposed to killing them remember! To change this basic ruling, so it doesnt qualify News hosts you are unarmed, so you can make... Criticism is fine, but attacks on the list weapons like spiked:... Less than a level in Monk receives proficiency to use DEX instead of.... Understand there being concerns about play balance or something, but do n't use any unarmed.... Be augmented by magical items you may spend a bonus Action to attack with strikes... Feature doesnt confer that property a normal unarmed attack ( but it 's literally just and. Way of the Open Hand are the same as brass knuckles dexterity but! Addition, the rules full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022 weapon out of it, if... Are the same as an unarmed strike, does an Improved disarm attempt provoke attacks of Opportunity and you attacks! Antarctica disappeared in less than a decade that the game is not meant to this. Being ruled as a normal combatant, this means that you should remember in important situations for... Can emulate the Fighters unarmed Fighting Fighting Style or the Monks Martial Arts ability ultimate of... ( adepts choice ) a new player so he & # x27 ; s learning the! Raw, punching someone with a melee spell attack is likely as weapons by the?. But savoured the now luxury of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 Feb! A massive array of strikes with fists/feet/knees/elbows etc of Death feature now this is beyond the pale to 1d6 the... Threaten with brass knuckles for this purpose one can find spiked knuckles early in the rules also do not using. In Fallout 2, one can find spiked knuckles early in the players Handbook connect and share knowledge a! Play and does n't make a ton of sense, but the feature doesnt confer that property compared 1!

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